Keeping Continuous Improvement Alive During Pandemic Times
Are you keeping continuous improvement alive in these challenging times? As a practitioner of 5S, you’ve put a lot of work into implementing standards and reinforcing their use. With the pandemic, people’s priorities have shifted and their focus can be distracted from the very continuous improvement practices that made them effective. So how do you keep it as a priority in these pandemic times?
Join David Visco, author of 5S Made Easy and founder of The 5S Store and Kurtis Johnson, a long-time practitioner of continuous improvement methodologies as they share experience and ideas from the trenches. In this webinar, you will hear about:
- Why continuous improvement and 5S initiatives should be a priority (even in pandemic times)
- How to motivate people with various roles/various backgrounds/various age groups
- Specific methods to help sustain 5S
- The role of KPI scorecards and gamification
Learn practical approaches by joining in this 30-minute webinar. You’ll be glad you did!
Resources for Continuous Improvement Mentioned in the Webinar
Use these resources to help you keep CI alive during these challenging times:
Meet Your 5S Guides
David Visco is the author of 5S Made Easy and the founder of The 5S Store. Today, he is sharing important tips you can use to ensure that implementing and sustaining 5S is a success in your company.
Learn the secrets to building 5S teams by joining in this 30-minute webinar. You’ll be glad you did!
Special Continuous Improvement Guest, Kurtis Johnson
Kurtis Johnson is a business specialist in manufacturing and operations familiar with using lean strategies for positive improvement. With more than 20 years of production experience coupled with continuous improvement, Kurtis is a change agent that is no stranger to a variety of continuous improvement principles, systems, and tools such as 5s, Lean, daily SQDC focus, A3 Thinking, and Visual Controls.
Transcripts from the Continuous Improvement Webinar
To download a PDF of the transcripts click here.
Maribeth:
Hello, and welcome. Thank you for joining us today. Before we get started, we have a few housekeeping items to cover. First, the hashtag for the webinar is #5S success. So feel free to post insights using this hashtag on LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. Also, we welcome you to ask questions throughout the presentation via the Q&A capability. It’s a button at the bottom of the screen towards the right-hand side. As you’ve heard, this is a conversational style webinar, and your questions are helpful to keeping the conversation relevant for you. We will attempt to answer all your questions, but if the question doesn’t get covered today, somebody will follow up with you after the webinar.
Maribeth:
Our session is being recorded and it will be sent to you following the presentation for your own purposes, or if you’d like to share it with others.
Maribeth:
Now I’d like to introduce our speakers.
Maribeth:
David Visco is a 5S expert. Beginning in 1985 David launched his career as a warehouse control manager running a distribution center that managed inventory of over $500 million in value. Using 5S in the workplace, he saw a unique opportunity and a need for a 5S resource and in 2006 he founded the 5S Store, the first online store dedicated entirely to 5S. In 2015 David’s first book, 5S Made Easy was published. Today in addition to his role at the 5S Store, he frequently speaks publicly on the topic of 5S best practices.
Maribeth:
Our second expert today is Kurtis Johnson. Kurtis Johnson is a business specialist in manufacturing and operations familiar with using lean strategies for positive improvement. With more than 20 years of production experience coupled with continuous improvement, Kurtis is a change agent that’s no stranger to a variety of continuous improvement principles, systems, and tools such as 5S, Lean, Daily SQ DC Focus, A3 thinking, and Visual Controls.
Maribeth:
We welcome both of today’s speakers.
Maribeth:
I’m your moderator, Maribeth, and I’ll be leading our discussion today, as well as taking questions from the audience throughout the webinar.
Maribeth:
Let’s get started with talking about a timely topic. I’d like to talk about how we keep continuous improvement alive in pandemic times. Certainly, the pandemic has caused disruption in a lot of working environments. So let me start by asking is continuous improvement still important?
Maribeth:
David, I’d like to ask you this question.
David:
Great question. Thank you, Maribeth. Thanks for joining us, everybody. Thank you Kurtis.
David:
Is 5S important today? I would suggest to you that today it’s more important than ever. The foundation of 5S is all about changing behaviors for the better. It’s not about laying tape or organizing tools on a board or whatnot. It’s about changing behaviors. I don’t know about you, but in the last several months, our behaviors have needed to change enormously like we’ve never seen before. In fact, I’d suggest it’s a life and death situation in a lot of cases.
David:
So the whole concept of 5S today needing to change behaviors is so pertinent more than I think it’s ever been before. We’re seeing that on the manufacturing floor, we’re seeing it in our own personal lives. Everywhere that I go, I’m seeing signs of 5S here and there. So I don’t think it’s ever been more important, truth be told.
Maribeth:
Kurtis, do you have any thoughts on that?
Kurtis:
Yeah. Actually it’s interesting that a lot of places that haven’t really practiced 5S or it’s not as visual before now is. A great example is the small convenience stores with the visual controls in the markings to keep us six feet apart. As David said, it’s changed all our behaviors and that’s one that’s I guess, very, very obvious to us. It’s a great time right now.
Kurtis:
The other thing that 5S does is to help people get a sense of control. So if you are one of the folks that have been doing maybe a kaizen event around 5S or you’re able to lay out your workspace using the 5S principles, this is a great time to have that sense of control with the outside world kind of being in a state of non-control right now.
Kurtis:
Again, I can’t agree with David more that this is a fantastic time to not only see the implementation in places where we don’t normally see it, but also to help us get back that kind of sense of control.
Maribeth:
Gotcha. Gotcha. For the audience, I want to call your attention to a poll that we have put up. You should see on your screen a question. We’re asking each one of you to answer yes or no to the question, has your 5S implementation been impacted by the pandemic? I’ll be able to report to you back in about 30 seconds, what the group has to say about this. So if you could take a moment to answer that poll that would be appreciated.
Maribeth:
Great. There’s our results. It looks like overwhelmingly 5S implementations have been impacted by the pandemic. It’s a 75% to 25% split. It’s interesting that you guys say it’s more important now than ever to have this stuff in place.
Maribeth:
Let’s continue the conversation with how do you maintain focus on these things right now, Kurtis?
Kurtis:
Well one of the keys I think right now, it’s a great time for the practitioners to kind of step up and take the lead and maybe their supervisors or some of those senior leadership is busy doing other things. So I think this is a fantastic time for the folks at the practitioner level to make sure that the 5S routines get re-installed or refocused. It’s a great time to go ahead and maybe take a little bit of the lead and get those routines going again.
Kurtis:
Again with the outside world in such a state of disarray, routines are extremely poor and to get people back focused on work and obviously specific around 5S, it’s a great system and it has a lot of routines built in it. So I would highly suggest use this time as an opportunity for the practitioners out there. Take the lead, if you can and get those 5S routines back and re-established.
Maribeth:
Thank you, Kurtis, for that. I’m going to throw this next one out to David. David, I know that sustaining 5S is a topic that’s near and dear to your heart. Are there some particular favorite, specific tactics for sustaining 5S that you think folks could use right now?
David:
Oh, sure. Yeah, no doubt. I would say first and foremost, though, it’s really important to make sure that you have your standards in place. after all standardized, and a lot of folks concern themselves about sustainment, but first I need to make sure that their standards are in place. So by that, I would say think about when you returned to work. All of a sudden there were new standards, there were new signs and whatnot. Make sure that they’re clear and concise to folks, because otherwise you’re not going to have people following the new standard. They’re not going to understand the new standards. So make sure everybody’s trained and whatnot on that.
David:
But then to sustain those, once you have your clear standards in place, it’s critical to make sure to communicate them. Communication is so key. We all know that, but with sustaining an improvement methodology like 5S and sustaining those new behaviors, you have to communicate out to the group. Make sure that all your employees and all your staff, and in fact, your vendors that might come into the building … Here at the 5S Store, we have UPS showing up. We put new standards in place, even for him when he came to make sure that one, he felt safe and two, that our team felt safe as well. In order to keep those types of things sustained, what’s incredibly important is holding everybody accountable. That goes down all the way from the janitor, all the way up to the CEO.
David:
I’ll give an example. Actually it was years ago when I was at facility and they had a big deal out there for safety glasses. Everybody was supposed to be wearing safety glasses. You’d walk around … There was one company I’d be at where sometimes people had them on, sometimes they didn’t. And when somebody didn’t have them on, nobody would call them out for. So there was no accountability. Then on the other hand, there was another client I was at where you damn well did not go anywhere without having your safety glasses on. And at any given point, if you had them propped up on your head, let’s say somebody saw that they would just call you and say, “Hey, glasses,” and somebody would drop them down.
David:
That’s two different methodologists as far as the behaviors and the communication, the accountability from folks. Everybody today has to hold each other more accountable than ever to follow the new standards that are in place and that’ll help sustain those changes.
David:
Another idea that I would suggest is that you actually build something into your audits regarding … what do you call it …. sanitation and whatnot. During the audits in today’s world, you’re going to want to maybe consider being more empathetic than ever before. Everybody’s on edge and whatnot. The whole idea of an audit to help sustain 5S is really important, but keep in mind that you also want to be more empathetic than you might’ve been in the past when the standards aren’t necessarily being followed, and I think that’s really important.
David:
Lastly, I would say it’s up to the management to sustain all of this and to hold everybody accountable. The leaders of the business have to realize that today more than ever they’re on stage. They’re always on stage. People are always watching what they’re doing, whether they know it or not. So at every time they’re out in about or in their office or anywhere, if the standard is wearing a face mask, you have to always wear a face mask. You can’t just do it well sometimes and whatnot. I call it a management must.
David:
I’ve talked about that on webinars and whatnot. For more about the standards you could certainly look into the book, 5S Made Easy, I talks about that quite a bit. But in today’s world, it’s a whole new game, so let’s make sure management’s doing their thing.
Maribeth:
Thanks David for that. We have our first question from the audience and it pertains to something that one of you said earlier, and I’ve noticed this myself. Some principles of 5S are becoming mainstream even if the people who are using them don’t even know it. What are some of the best practices of 5S that you think are particularly relevant right now?
Maribeth:
I’m going to ask this of both of you, but David since you’ve been talking, if you want to go first, that’s fine.
David:
So what am I seeing now in 5S out just in the marketplace?
Maribeth:
Yeah. When you go into businesses that aren’t typically 5S organizations and you see 5S principles in play, what kinds of principles are you seeing and what do you think is important now?
David:
Okay. I think what I’m seeing the most, even just in my local Walgreens … it was pretty funny … sorry to say it was funny, but when COVID first hit and people started taking it seriously, and this is a few months ago, I went into the local Walgreens and I was at the prescription counter and there was some blue tape on the ground. Being a 5S nut I’m like, “Oh my god, what’s the signal here? What is it that this is supposed to be telling me to do? It’s very unclear.” I even asked the guy behind me because he was right on my shoulder. I’m like, “You’re not supposed to be standing there.” I actually went and talked to the management at the store and I suggested some better visuals, clearer visuals, more concise visuals. So over time they changed those.
David:
What I’ve seen is companies like retail stores and restaurants and whatnot, they’re putting more and more signage in place that’s crystal clear, like, “You cannot enter this business unless much you have your mask on.” Companies are doing that left and right.
David:
What I haven’t experienced yet, but I think has been in the news quite a bit is the situation that puts employees in like at a restaurant, so a waiter or waitress. If somebody from the public walks in and they don’t necessarily have their mask on, those people do they know how to stop the person politely and correctly to say, “Hey, you can’t come in without a mask or whatnot.”
David:
One thing I’m seeing is there’s a lack of training and a lack of standards for even the employees in restaurants and whatnot, and other places that they don’t necessarily know how to handle that situation. That happens a lot in manufacturing too where the training is just missing, and it’s really important to make sure we have that employees.
Maribeth:
Thanks David. Kurtis, do you have any examples of 5S best practices that you’re seeing in play in non-5S organizations?
Kurtis:
Yeah. I think the supermarket is a classic one where you actually have arrows going up and down the aisles. It’s all part of the visceral control, which comes into 5S in a couple of different places. But I think it’s best under the standardization and the individual controls, fits well into some of the standardization stuff that we do when we’re doing the 5S events.
Kurtis:
It’s really interesting again, in the supermarket to watch people. The supermarkets that seem to be doing it well, it’s not just a simple arrow on the floor; they have additional signage. They have signage when you walk in and it’s in your face. But in particular, I’ve noticed additional folks on the floor in these supermarkets where they will actually coach a little bit when they see somebody going the wrong way down the aisle, they’ll actually speak up. And in those stores where they do have employees focused on that, you’ll notice the adherence to the visuals is a lot better versus the stores that just put the arrows on the floor and expect everybody to adhere.
Kurtis:
So there’s some coaching involved, and I think that’s true it relates very much to our workplaces. 5S is a wonderful system, but there’s still that accountability and coaching that needs to happen.
Maribeth:
I just got a timely question from Brian in our audience. And so Kurtis, I’m going to give this one to you since it’s pertinent to what you were just saying. Brian asks, “What are some suggestions to communicate well and often, but also avoid creating signage noise?”
Kurtis:
That’s a really interesting question. I happened to have had the ability to actually go to Toyota or couple of times. I’ll just give you their spiel on it that we ask the same thing, because when you go to Toyota, there is visual controls everywhere. I think they found out over time that the likelihood of over-visualization versus the not having visuals enough, they’ve chosen the latter. I think we can all understand that Toyota has been in the forefront in a lot of things, so I like to side with their findings and say, “You know, I don’t think you can over-visualize at this point.” I would just be in tune with that kind of a message. Obviously there’s always where you can go kind of out of control, but when you do visit their facilities, there’s a lot of visuals, but again, they found it better to go that route then than the lesser route.
Maribeth:
Thanks for that. I’m going to continue with another question from the audience that builds off something that you guys talked about earlier, which was sustainment. The point was made that alignment up through the leaders is really a critical part of success with initiatives like 5S or other continuous improvement initiatives. I’d like for us to talk a little bit about that.
Maribeth:
Kurtis, do you want to take that one?
Kurtis:
Yeah. Some of the best organizations that you go to, and I’ve had the ability through some work with the AME to visit several organizations, and the ones that seem to sustain and also have quite a few of the best practices that we like to share and steal are the ones that have the alignment up the leadership. It’s done a few different ways, either through Gembo Walks or even where the management is out there doing audits themselves. But in those organizations where you see the practice on a daily basis by management is generally where you see the best programs. I mean it’s almost a direct correlation.
Kurtis:
David, do you agree?
David:
Oh yeah, 100%. Yeah. It’s all about their involvement, like you said, Gembo Walks and whatnot. Being out on the floor, being seen, it’s so key. I even suggest to companies that when they’re going through a 5S initiative to have senior management involved in the team, like actually be at the meetings, being on their hands and knees laying tape, being part of the entire initiative so that they show people that it is a thing. It’s not a flavor of the month. We’re completely involved in this and supporting it. Yeah, that’s key.
Maribeth:
I wanted to throw something else out there. We actually had a comment from the audience, which is something that we hadn’t yet brought up about sustainment of behaviors. John from our audience said, “Positive reinforcement is key. When we’re in a group, I will thank someone for wearing their masks, et cetera.” And I thought that was a really good point to share.
Maribeth:
We have another question pertinent to this topic from Megan. Megan’s asking if either of you have any advice for managing projects or teams at a manufacturing facility while you’re working remotely. Any thoughts on that?
David:
You got anything there, Kurtis?
Kurtis:
Yeah. Just from some examples that I’ve seen in the past, you can do a remote management. Sometimes it takes a little bit of … I don’t know what you want to say … brainstorming on how get it done, but in the past I’ve seen where their daily morning meetings may be tier one, tier two, even tier three. They’ve had plants, different sites involved in these meetings and they’ve done it through just like we’re doing today. The various programs, either Skype or Zoom or what have you. It does take a little extra work, but I think it’s still not that hard to do. It’s just a practice of something different, like actually carrying your laptop with you, and when you’re reviewing, you’re using the camera to maybe review the charts on the walls and the updates and that kind of stuff.
Kurtis:
It’s doable. It feels a little strange at first, but it’s just like anything else once you get used to it and find out how to overcome some of these challenges, it’s definitely doable. I guess on the other side of things, technology right now is increasing dramatically to let us work remotely. So it’s actually a great time to use some of these new tools as they appear to us.
Maribeth:
I think that’s true. One of the things that I’ll point out, even though I’m not a panelist today, is that I’ve learned about 5S that taking pictures of what the ideal state looks like is always helpful in keeping people in alignment with what that ideal state is. And so if you’ve done that right pre-COVID, you have these assets available to you to be able to share with people as a reminder of what workstations are supposed to look like, et cetera. I just wanted to put that out there as well.
Maribeth:
While we’re on the topic of sustainment, one of the other things that’s come up is this concept of involving the people and making it fun for them in terms of staying in alignment with their expectations. I’m curious if you could talk about … I’m going to start with Kurtis here … what are some simulation approaches that you like? And for the record, I’m also going to throw up a poll for the audience to tell us whether they’re using simulations.
Kurtis:
One of the classic simulations for 5S is the numbers game. I think most of the folks that are practitioners or have been through training have probably seen it out there. And while I like the numbers game, I think from a conceptual level that it starts to teach you that some of the real benefits of 5S. There’s some other very practical simulations, which are much more hands-on. Since 5S is such a hands-on activity, especially the first three, which are the and then you have standardized and sustain, which are kind of the part that keeps the program going. I really like the hands-on simulations that you can do. There’s various nuts and bolts games that help you kind of practice 5S.
Kurtis:
I use one that’s also what I like to call the Knives, Forks and Spoons game, where you’re basically using one of the organizers that we all have in our kitchen and you give somebody that organizer with your knives, forks, and spoons all laid out. And then you give somebody else a pile of nice forks and spoons, maybe with some other things thrown in there, like pencils and pens, and you have a kind of a race set up so that both of them have to do five place settings.
Kurtis:
The key here is not to talk about who does it quicker, but I can tell you the one with the organizer always wins, but it’s more of what was your work day like. How easy was it for you when you were using that kitchen organizers that we have for our forks, knives and spoons versus the other person that was just pulling forks and knives and spoons out of a pile? What did that feel like?
Kurtis:
It’s so, so key that our 5S activities are really designed to make work life easier. If we can keep that in the forefront, I think things go a lot smoother. And those kinds of hands-on activities, I think are key while we’re teaching and training.
Maribeth:
Thanks for that. Let’s look at the answer to our polling question, and then I’m going to turn the question over to David. Okay. It looks like the majority of our audience is not currently using simulations as part of their sustainment activity. So it seems to me that it might be a great time, David for you to throw out another example of one of your favorite simulations that maybe folks can use.
David:
I think Kurtis may have mentioned it as the nuts and bolts game from GBMP. That’s always been a really good one. It’s very simple and straightforward.
David:
I’ll actually tell you a funny story. If you’re not familiar with that simulation, the idea is you get a whole can or a bucket of bolts and you have to build a widget if you will, and dissolve different sizes of screws and washers and nuts and whatever in there. The idea is initially you give it to somebody and they’re supposed to make the widget that you’ve given them and you give them no direction, no standards, no nothing, and you time it. Then the second time around, you can , you give them a shadow board, you lay out the pieces that they need, and they do it in no time flat.
David:
Well it was funny. One time I did that simulation with the group and in the first scenario where you give them a whole bucket of bolts and they got to make it, and usually people stress out and they sweat and they never make it, this guy made in like 20 seconds. It was a fricking riot. Everybody in there was looking at him like, “What the heck?” We all had a lot of fun. If that’s the idea there … are there simulations and techniques that you can use to make 5S fun. I mean that was a riot. I’ve never seen that before. People, they got the concept regardless of the little bit of fun that we had there to standardize your workspace.
David:
Truth be told another way of having some fun with this is to actually have people go home and have some fun with their kids, like maybe attack in the playroom or wherever they keep their tools in their garage and whatnot, and have some fun with it. Take your before and afters and then bring it into work and show everybody what it was that you did. Just very simple sharing type of exercise. It gets people on board. You’ll see some pretty cool stuff that people bring in from home.
David:
I had a client, they took their toy room with all their kids, and I mean there was stuff everywhere, so it was a great picture. And of course, what they did instead was they got a bunch of those colored bins and whatnot and started organizing them all. The girl stuff was in … what did she use … I think she used yellow bins and the boy’s stuff, they used blue bins and they separated things color-coding wise, which is pretty cool. So you can have fun with it. Bringing it home kind of helps.
Maribeth:
Awesome. Thanks for that. There’s another serious topic that was mentioned quickly earlier, and I want to make sure we cover off on this one. It is the topic of audits. We’re going to put up a poll for the audience regarding audit, and I’d appreciate you taking the time to answer this. While that’s happening, I would love to start with Kurtis. How do audits help sustain? I think we know they do. How often, and what’s your experience from the manufacturing floor of what you should look at?
Kurtis:
The best success that I’ve seen and I think if you do some reading, you’ll find this in some various books and literature is what we call tiered audits. It flows very, very nicely and it helps connect the 5S and the Pfizer system in the audit. So daily, and even by shift, if you’re running a three shift operation, the operators on the floor they should be doing a very quick audit slash more of a checklist to sustain the 5S in that area.
Kurtis:
The next level, or the tier two audits would be the supervisor. And that I would suggest that the supervisors would do the weekly audits. That’s again, to check not the operators, but that the check sheets on the floor are catching what we want, and so that we have a good chance for the audits to be successful. And then the third tier of the audit system is when management, or maybe the lead continuous improvement person at the site comes in and does a formal audit with a formal rating system.
Kurtis:
Oh, and that should be done either every two weeks or monthly. I would suggest, especially in the beginning every two weeks. With those three connected to each other, and I’m focused on getting the scores up to where it’s appropriate, say if you have a one to five score, you want at least to get a 3.5 to four, I think those three through three different tiers work out tremendous. It reinforces several steps along the way. It reinforces the importance of the daily check sheet, the supervisor obviously being part of the 5S audit system, and then also the senior leadership, the management showing how important the 5S audits are.
Kurtis:
The other thing that it does, which is kind of fun, is it gives a chance for different departments, different areas to compete against each other. And something from my past that was really cool, we did have the warehouse that continued to score low. After a few months with those audits, they came to me and said, “We don’t want to be low anymore. We’re sick of it. We want to be the top against all the other groups.” That then spurred an actual kaizen that we went and did. And from there on out the warehouse did score in the top rung and they were extremely proud of it. Oh by the way, when I say the warehouse, it wasn’t the warehouse management; it was the warehouse operators that wanted to get their scores up.
Maribeth:
Thanks for that. I’d love to put up the results of the poll if we could. All right. It looks like we have a good mix here. How often are you conducting audits? We see 36% of respondents said weekly, 43% said monthly, 14% said quarterly, and we had one response for annually. But it sounds to me from what you said, Kurtis, that having a sort of tiered approach is really the best practice there.
Kurtis:
That’s what I’ve seen in my past. Again not only in my own organization that I’ve experienced, but several of the organizations that have had the tiered audits, it seems to work out extremely well. It’s a lot of work, but it’s the payoff’s definitely there.
Maribeth:
Yeah. .
David:
I wanted to add something too, if I could. Regarding audits, one thing to keep in mind. I remember Bruce Hamilton reminded me of this years ago that the audits are all about communication. At the end of the day, the whole point of them isn’t some scoring or some chart, or checking off a list, and Kurtis knows this, but it’s all about creating an atmosphere where people are talking to one another. They’re actually thinking about what worked well? What help do they need? What ideas do you have? What could we do to make things better? And it’s all about opening that line of communication that we talked about in the very beginning, even with COVID in mind, to always made sure communication is there and it’s flowing and it’s vibrant and it’s got everybody included.
David:
Remember; I know audits has a bad name, but that’s because it’s abused. It’s not used the way it should be. The tiered approach Kurtis mentioned, along with realizing the ultimate goal is opening communication and figuring out what’s working and what isn’t is really key.
Kurtis:
Yeah. One other point that I’d like to put forward, I think it re-emphasizes some of the points we’ve already made. If you can when you’re doing your 5S audits, make sure you take pictures of the good stuff. So if you see a particular area, that’s done something above and beyond, or if you see just a good overall 5S look to an area, take those photos, get them up. It reinforces all the positive things we talked about, but it also helps on the communication like David was just talking about also.
Maribeth:
I’ve realized that we’ve gone over our allotted time, but we have a bunch of people still hanging on the line, so thank you to the audience for your patience with us as we continue to talk about these topics. We’re going to begin wrapping things up, but I want to welcome the audience to put feedback in the chat mechanism about this format, because it seems to me that this conversation format has really spurred some great comments and questions from the audience. I’d like to ask the audience, if they’d like to see the same kind of approach going forward, and maybe we even extend to 45 minutes. So any opinions from our audience, our frequent flyers about that are welcomed to be added to the chat. You can feel free to do those at this time.
Maribeth:
I also want to let you know that we do have some questions remaining to answer from the audience. We’re going to take those and we will send out a response to everyone who’s participated in the webinar with the answers to those questions for you since we’re out of time to answer those today.
Maribeth:
I do want to thank you, David and Kurtis. Thank you to our viewers for your questions.